The Deal of the Century!

"Spoon II" (Spoon_II) 10/28/2016 at 14:16 • Filed to: None

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!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Pun Intended! But seriously, some of these things are pretty reasonably priced now (even including the shipping costs). Color me intrigued.

Of course, this doesn’t include inspections and whatever else needs to be done, but still!

crowmolly > Spoon II 10/28/2016 at 14:19

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Might be reasonable price, but getting Kinja’d is always free.

DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time > Spoon II 10/28/2016 at 14:19

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Color me blue words! :)

Spoon II > crowmolly 10/28/2016 at 14:20

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Haha, I think the link is working now. I’m on to Kinja’s sketchy ways!

crowmolly > Spoon II 10/28/2016 at 14:22

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LOL.

I’d totally buy it just to shoot my own 80's-style action movie.

Spoon II > crowmolly 10/28/2016 at 14:24

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Truth! You just know someone intimidating is going to roll up in that thing (assuming you use the right music to set the mood).

Spoon II > DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time 10/28/2016 at 14:27

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Kinja wouldn’t let me communicate with pictures apparently. But those blue words lead to Japanese coziness!

Tapas > Spoon II 10/28/2016 at 14:27

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Finally! I can ask me friends to drive me around and pretend to be a Yakuza boss!

The Cranberry Cap'n > Spoon II 10/28/2016 at 14:28

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Hi Oppo, hopping in from over on GT and hoping you folks might be able to point me in the right direction. Don’t mean to jack your thread, sorry about that, but I hope maybe you can help? I want to buy a used car to upgrade the unreliable shitboxes we currently own, but I know very little about cars. Like... almost nothing. I was hoping maybe you would have some input on what a decent car would be for these parameters: safe, can fit two big carseats in the back and still have leg room in the front, reliable, and good fuel economy. Other than that... don’t care.

I was thinking about looking around for lightly used Suburu Outback but I’m big enough to admit I have pretty much no idea what I’m talking about. I’d hate to make an investment in a bad choice. So... please help?

Spoon II > Tapas 10/28/2016 at 14:30

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That is the dream! Haha, or get them to drive you to job interviews like a baller!

Tapas > Spoon II 10/28/2016 at 14:33

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Haha yes!

Go round the block. Have the car stop suddenly. Roll down the window, lower your sunglasses and point at someone

Then, have your friend suddenly jump out of the car, run toward them....give them some candy, yell happy haloween and escape. Lol

Spoon II > The Cranberry Cap'n 10/28/2016 at 14:33

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Hey, no worries. I’ve always been a huge fan of the Outbacks myself. And as far as reliability and whatnot goes, they’re pretty solid. Unfortunately, I know nothing about carseats/kids, so I can’t really give any advice on how good they are for families. Not sure how many people are going to wander onto this post, but hopefully someone with a family will be able to drop you some advice!

Spoon II > Tapas 10/28/2016 at 14:35

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lol, that idea is pure gold! I think this has to happen now

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > The Cranberry Cap'n 10/28/2016 at 14:43

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A Lexus LS400 fits all of those criteria except for gas mileage. I’d recommend it.

The Stig's former college room mate > Spoon II 10/28/2016 at 14:59

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I want to buy that just because I work at a toyota dealer. I’d love to confuse all the techs when i bring it in for service.

jimz > Spoon II 10/28/2016 at 15:04

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that steering wheel looks like it was ripped right out of an ‘80s Oldsmobile.

Spoon II > The Stig's former college room mate 10/28/2016 at 15:04

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Haha, just watch as they all stare at it vacantly for a few minutes, and then check the Toyota badge repeatedly.

Spoon II > jimz 10/28/2016 at 15:05

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...Or did the 80's Oldsmobile rip it out of the Toyota :O

The Stig's former college room mate > Spoon II 10/28/2016 at 15:11

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Most of the techs down there aren’t too far out of school, so there’s lots of models they haven’t heard of. even US models. One kid had never heard of a Corona when I mentioned my grandfather drove one. Another had his mind blown when I told him from 83 to 87 you could buy both a FWD and a RWD Corolla

The Cranberry Cap'n > Spoon II 10/28/2016 at 15:16

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Thanks! As for carseat space, I think you can probably just think of it as lots of legroom in the back/a fairly large cab. They’re just big and bulky and a tiny cab will squish the driver/passenger in the front if there’s not enough room in the back. Good to know that the Outback, if not a sexy choice, is a reasonable one.

The Cranberry Cap'n > V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches 10/28/2016 at 15:18

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Thanks! Yeah 16/24 mpg might be a little below my target gas range, especially since we won’t be putting on too many highway miles so it’s going to tend toward the city range, but I’ll look into it as well.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > The Cranberry Cap'n 10/28/2016 at 15:22

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Lol 24. I do a lot of highway miles in mine and get 16 average. I don’t want to know what I’d get in an urban environment...

Boxer_4 > The Cranberry Cap'n 10/28/2016 at 15:32

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It depends on what year Outback you are looking at. 2009 and older are definitely smaller in the back seat compared to 2010 and newer. I doubt you would have any trouble space wise with a 2010 or newer. The 2009 or older would likely still work, but it will be tighter.

The 2014 and newer Forester also has great rear seat room without sacrificing front passenger space.

The best advice I could give us to bring a car seat with you when you start seriously shopping.

Any other questions on the Outback or other Subarus, just let me know.

The Cranberry Cap'n > V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches 10/28/2016 at 15:39

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Yiiiiiikes I knew the top mileage is usually a stretch, but that’s pretty low, haha.

The Cranberry Cap'n > Boxer_4 10/28/2016 at 15:48

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Thanks! Since I’m looking to buy used, are there any problems Outbacks are prone to that I should be on the lookout for when looking around? Will be sure to bring a car seat when we go. Not that they’ll be there forever, but probably for the majority of the life of the car since kids have to have a seating device until they are 80 lbs. or 8 years old. That’s five years for my oldest, eight years for my youngest.

How’s the fuel economy, in real life? I’m a little surprised that the Forester seems to be about the same as an Outback, frankly, since it seems to be a bigger car. My husband is hoping to have a car that can double for loading up like a truck. We can’t really do a truck right now because the models with a cab big enough for kids are humongous, but something you can throw a tarp into and pile wood in the back would be nice.

Also, any bum years I should avoid where the models didn’t hold up as well?

Spoon II > The Stig's former college room mate 10/28/2016 at 16:26

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Oh snap! If you find someone with a Toyota Sera around, you could make their heads explode! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Sera

Boxer_4 > The Cranberry Cap'n 10/28/2016 at 21:17

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We have a 2009 Forester 2.5X Limited, 2012 Outback 3.6R Limited, and a 2015 Forester 2.5i Limited, so those are my direct points of reference as far as fuel economy goes:

The 2009 Forester is rated at 20 city and 26 highway (though I tend to see around 23-24 highway depending on conditions such as speed, wind, etc.) The big Achilles heel of that car is the 4 speed automatic transmission. While it’s a pretty reliable and competent (performance wise) transmission, it just isn’t fuel efficient. The Outback had the 4 speed automatic until 2010, and the Forester had the 4 speed automatic until 2014.

The 2012 Outback has the 6 cylinder engine, so it isn’t a direct comparison to the more typical 4 cylinder versions. It’s rated at 18 city and 25 highway, though we typically see 19 city and 26 highway (sometimes 27 highway). The 6 cylinder Outbacks from 2005-2014 used a 5 speed automatic, and the engine doesn’t need to work as hard (it has 1.5X the power of the 4 cylinder), both which are good for fuel economy.

The 2015 Forester is rated at 24 city and 32 highway, though we typically see 25 city and 33 highway. It has a more modern engine compared to the 2009 Forester, and also has a Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT). That transmission doesn’t have any gears, but rather uses a chain on adjustable pulleys to transmit power to the wheels. It is a significant improvement for fuel economy over the old 4 speed automatic.

A 2009 and earlier Outback with the 4 cylinder should see around what the 2009 Forester does, while a 2010 or newer Outback with the 4 cylinder should see closer to what the 2015 Forester does (keeping in mind it will probably be a bit less since the Outback is ~200 lbs heavier). The 6 cylinder Outback should be around what the 2012 Outback 6 cylinder sees.

The Outback is great as a utility vehicle. We’ve taken it camping lots of times, including loading the back with firewood. It’s quite easy to put a cargo box on the roof for some extra space as well (2010+ Outbacks have a roof rack that doesn’t need additional cross rails for things such as cargo boxes). We’ve fit wheelbarrows, lots gardening supplies, and way too much yard waste in both of the Foresters with no issue ( I’m sure it would work in the Outback, too, but that’s my dad’s car, and he’s not into that sort of thing... ) The main difference in cargo capacity between the Outback and Forester is that the Outback has a longer cargo area, while the Forester has a taller cargo area. We tend to find the cargo area in the Outback a bit more useful, though the cargo area in the Foresters are perfectly fine.

As far as issues and/or problems to watch out for, there are a few;

The older 2.5 liter engines (~1996-2004) had a history of leaking or failing engine head gaskets, which isn’t the cheapest to repair. Starting in 2005, that engine was heavily revised which basically eliminated that issue (the issue still pops up occasionally, but it is exceptionally rare.) All of these engines were part of the “EJ” engine family (not to get too technical, but every major engine design is given a “family name” by Subaru. You can determine the engine family and specific engine model by reading the plaque in the passenger’s side front door jamb). Although not specifically an issue, these engines use a timing belt which needs to be replaced every 105,000 miles. Serious engine damage can occur if the belt isn’t replaced (i.e. it breaks). The Outback had “EJ” engines until 2013.

The brand-new design engines, the “FB” engine family, do not have a history of head gasket issues, and they use a timing chain rather than a belt, so it doesn’t need to be replaced. However, some early “FB” engines are known to consume oil. I have written about this before . The Outback has been using the “FB” engine since 2013, and the issue was corrected for the 2014 models. Our 2015 Forester has an “FB” engine, and does not have this issue.

The 6 cylinder is part of the “EZ” family, and does not have a history of head gasket issues or oil consumption issues, and also has a timing chain. The 3.0 liter versions found in earlier Outbacks do require premium fuel though, while the 3.6 liter versions do not.

Some Subaru models are part of the Takata airbag recall, or will be (newer models will be having their recalls become official in stages, which I have previously explained here ).

There may be other things such as wheel bearings or axle joint boots that fail with age or mileage, but that’s often the case with any car. When buying used, I highly recommend taking whatever you are seriously considering buying (Subaru or not) to a trusted mechanic or garage for a thorough pre-purchase inspection.

One other thing, this site ( cars101.com ), is a fantastic research site for both new and old Subarus (not affiliated with or sponsored by Subaru). The guy who runs it (not me) is a Subaru dealer in Seattle and has a wealth of knowledge.

I hope this doesn’t seem like an excessive amount of information. As you can probably tell, I’m a Subaru guy, and once I get going on the subject I can’t seem to stop!     

The Cranberry Cap'n > Boxer_4 10/29/2016 at 01:17

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Whew! Thanks for all the info. So from the sounds of it, I should be looking for probably an Outback (for better utility) at least post-2005 for reliability and preferably 6-cylinder rather than 4 for fuel economy.

One problem I noticed when cruising around for used Suburu Outbacks/Foresters, at least online, is that they tend to have pretty high mileage for the price in comparison with other cars. I imagine this might be because people use them for a longer time/take them on trips. For example, there’s a used 2010 Forester 2.5x Premium for ~$10k which has 118k miles on it at a dealer near me. Which seems like... a lot for ten grand? Even for a reliable car. But again, I know literally nothing. I don’t really have a good sense of what a good deal would look like on a used OR new car. I’ve been using hand-me-down cars bought for pittance until now and never actually purchased from a dealer, to my embarrassment.

Boxer_4 > The Cranberry Cap'n 10/31/2016 at 19:10

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I would say yes on all of those points except for the 4 cylinder vs 6 cylinder for fuel economy. On that front, it really depends on how you are going to be using it. The 4 cylinder will likely get better fuel economy in the city, while the 6 cylinder will likely get better fuel economy on the highway (when talking about Subarus with traditional automatic transmissions). The newer CVT equipped Subarus will get higher fuel economy in both city and highway situations.

The good/bad thing (depending on which side of the sale you are on) about Subarus these days is that they tend to hold there value quite well. Especially if you are in any of the Subaru “hot zones” such as Washington State, Colorado, New England, and (to a lesser extent) anywhere that gets an appreciable amount of snow.

Also, I just want to say that I’m not the best person to ask about fair pricing, nor do I know what your budget is. That being said, I do agree that $10k is a bit much for one with around 118k miles, but not by a whole lot if the Edmunds True Market Value tool is to be believed. Just briefly poking around Autotrader in my general area (100 mile range from 18049 zip code), I found several 2009-2011 Forester 2.5X Premiums under 70,000 miles in the $12,700 to $13,400 range.